This is taken from a couple of Talon Digest posts.
From: Greg Rowe m1tanker@mn.rr.com Date: 02 May 2001 00:55:13
Here is the best advice I can give you regarding handling an insurance claim as an ex auto claims adjuster with over 7 years experience. If you have any questions regarding a claim e-mail and I'll help you.
Information on how to deal with an Insurance company after a loss.
Total Loss Vehicles:
To decide if a car is a total the company figures out what the value is minus the salvage value. If this value is less then the repair costs, your car is considered un-economically repairable (totaled). If it is a borderline (meaning the 2 numbers are close) you can make the difference. If you don't want it saved just tell them. Speak to a supervisor if you need to. Become a polite, but consistent irritation and they will give in. Start picking all sorts of things that you think were caused by the loss (real or imagined). Start explaining how you won't accept the car unless the repairs are perfect. Tell them about how you think every ding and little dent was caused by flying debris from the loss. On a fire/flood loss tell them about a friends car that they never could get the smell out of. Tell them about how the car never ran right and it fried the computer and the stereo. They will soon get the hint.
If you don't want your car totaled you do have some choices. There is really only 1 good reason to save a borderline car and have it work out to your advantage. If there is no major damage (meaning frame or suspension) and you are really attached, you should make them aware of your desire. You are going to have to talk them into it and probably sign a release after they get a guaranteed bid (this means the shop will do the repairs for this amount or eat the cost over-run) from the shop. It is usually better to let them total it and then keep the salvage (more on that later).
Give them a few days to start getting a value for the car. Here is your dose of reality. The car has a value. This is the actual cash value. Meaning the actual value that someone would pay for it, in the condition it's in, in the area it's in. It doesn't matter that you were wronged and it's not your fault. It doesn't matter that your car is the only one of it's kind (scarcity doesn't equal more value). It doesn't matter that 2000 miles away, in whatever car show, you saw one like it sold for a million dollars. You know more about your car then the adjuster. Use this to your advantage.
The insurance company is lazy by nature. They enter your cars information in a computer (after getting the blue book values) and send it to an evaluation company. Their computer has car ads stored in it. It finds similar cars to yours, spits out those adds, comes up with an average based on those cars and values stored in their database. This is the value they send back to your insurance company. If your adjuster has extra time they will call the ads and check out the sale price (not the advertised price). When the adjuster comes back with a value you will be armed with better information. You should have already done your research. You need to look for information on cars similar to yours. You want ads from cars of similar model year, options and mileage. You want hi-priced cars. You don't owe them any favors, don't help them by giving them ads that low ball your case. They aren't going to show you the higher priced ones. Cars that a little worse then yours but asking a higher price help out more. It's hard to talk you down if you can show that cars with more miles and less options than your car are going for more then they are offering you. You need to be realistic on this. Don't find a show car to give them when yours is a daily driver. Call the ads and look at the ones that support your case. Document everything. Nothing gets the value higher then a stack of paper dropped on an adjusters desk (which then usually goes to a supervisors desk).
This also helps to educate you on what your car is worth. Remember that all the race parts you added to your car don't increase the value much at all. Modifications can add some value, but $4500 in huge wings, flares, skirts etc... don't add $4500 value to your car and may take away from the value. This applies more to stereos. A $5000 stereo in a $5000 car doesn't make the car worth $10,000. Another thing that helps is to ask for their examples and their evaluation (you are allowed to have it). Call the numbers on the ad to see the condition of the car and how it compares to yours. If you can show that their evaluation is off and those ads were nothing like your car all their numbers are suspect.
Another tip: time is on your side. The longer you wait the worse it looks to have that file sitting around on that person's desk. Don't sign anything giving them permission to remove the car from the tow yard. The longer the car sits there, the more they have to pay for storage and the more likely they are to settle. Keep hitting them with more information and keep on them. Be polite and firm. If the adjuster is rude and/or doesn't seem to be cutting it, move up to a supervisor. If not happy with them, move up to their manager and then the division manager and so on. You just have to show them that they are going to spend more money saying no then saying yes. A HUGE plus in your favor is the old 'Squeaky wheel gets the oil'. Keep moving up the chain of command. They will get more nervous. No one likes to get a call from the higher ups asking why this insured is calling them. I've seen it time and time again. Your supervisor gets a call from higher up saying "Just get rid of it. Do whatever it takes."
Never get rude, just advise them you'd like to speak with the next higher person in the chain as you aren't satisfied. You can also help yourself by threatening to file a complaint with your state insurance commission. This can have a lot of affect depending on your state. Many states will fine an insurance company for not properly handling a claim, not paying enough, harassing you, and not responding fast enough to you. This will usually shake them up and help get you what you want. Don't bother with an attorney. The attorney is not used to cars, repairs, actual cash value, depreciation, options, condition of your car vs the examples, etc... You can try it as a last resort, most times you end up just wasting time and money. It may help on a medical claim, but on a car you will usually not be helped. Document every interaction with the insurance company and how they dealt with you. Nothing gives you more credence and makes and adjuster look worse to their supervisors than you presenting evidence of abusive behavior, bad judgment, bad claims handling, not returning calls , etc...
Last tip on a total loss claim. If you have a lot of money in modifications to your car you will probably want to keep salvage. This pays off if you are smart. Have a place you can store the car. Make sure you are realistic on how much you can sell the parts off your car for (or on the amount of money you will save by keeping the parts for your next car). It usually doesn't pay to try and rebuild the car. Your car will have a salvaged title (making it harder to insure or sell). Also, call some salvage yards for bids on your car and call the company that your insurance company called. Sometimes the salvage company will pay less then what they originally bid for and this can save you money. They will take the salvage amount from your check if you keep salvage. This is because they would normally get that amount from the salvage yard. Move the car from the tow yard AS SOON as you settle. The insurance company is responsible for the tow and storage fees up to the settlement date. Make sure they have called the tow yard and confirmed the amount that is due so you can pick-up your car.
Remember, You are just a file on a desk. Your adjuster doesn't hate you, they just want to get the file handled. To the company it's all a business of numbers. They know that the more claims they can settle for a lower price the more money they make. You just have to show them you are going to be that small percentage that knows what they are talking about. Don't forget it's just a business. It's not wrong or right. There is no reason to open a business that loses money. They aren't out to get you, they aren't evil, they just get paid to do their job (just like you).
SGT Greg Rowe
'90 Eagle Talon AWD 'Little Monster'
[One thing I wondered about. If they are not willing to give you any extra money for the mods you add, don't you have the legal right to remove them from the car, even if they are going to condemn the car? -talon mgr]
Yes, the main caveat is that the vehicle can't be disabled by what you removed. Examples: If you pull off your 3" exhaust, you need to put something back on. If you pull off your 17's, you need to put some type of wheels and tires back on. All your HKS electronics can be pulled if the car will still run without it. I know sometimes the adjuster won't care and will let you pull off the whole exhaust if the engine was damaged and the car won't run anyways. This can help you get back a lot of your missing money. Sell the parts to others and ask for their stock parts. If you keep salvage you can strip anything off that you want. Salvage company may not give you as much if you do something crazy and pull the engine and drivetrain as than they can't sell that part.
From: Greg Rowe m1tanker@mn.rr.com Date: 02 May 2001 01:44:56
>Say a policy holder hits a newer car, and causes $5000 in
>damage. No big deal, the company covers it. Now say the same person hits
>a '90 Talon, and does the same $5000 in damage. Should the insurance
>company get a break and total the car for $3000, screwing the victim?
>Most states, if not all, have a minimum property damage requirement. I
>think CA is like $15,000, way too low now a days. If the insurance
>company is contracted to pay up to $15,000, why should it matter how
>much the car is worth? They should be required to return the car to it's
>original condition, even if it costs more then the car is "worth." Now
>say the role is reversed- the policy holder wipes out a $40,000 BMW.
>Will the insurance company graciously cover the difference? I didn't
>think so.
No, the insurance company won't cover the additional amount. The rate you pay for that $15K is based on a number of factors. The first and most important is the amount of coverage you want. You agree with your insurance company that you will pay x$ for x amount of coverage. If you want more you have to pay more. The second most important is the risk involved on that policy. The major factor for your example is that they are agreeing to gamble on you (and their other insureds) and the fact that you are not going to get in an accident and if you do that it will not do $15,000 damage every time. If the company didn't do this, they would just charge you $15,000 for a $15,000 policy. This is the way insurance works.
In your example, the insurance companies cost on the Talon claim would have increased by about 66%. Say that this average is the across the board results of doing business the way you have talked about. No problem for the companies, they just increase the rates for all of their policy holders by 66%. This means you. If all companies did this then you would pay more for your policy as they paid more for claims. Remember also that your insurance rates go down as your car gets older and loses value. It's not going down because repair costs go down (that never happens). If you don't want your car to be totaled by your own company because of its lower value, you're going to pay more. You can wonder all you want how things might be. I'm just showing you the reality. This society has decided the rules and regulations of the insurance industry through its laws. This society has also required you to have insurance. If you can think of a better way to do this, open up the new type of insurance company you would prefer. Watch how fast people stay with their cheaper insurance policies that total cars rather than repair everything.
BTW, regarding your statement about never having a newer totaled car be the same. It's actually easier to rebuild a newer totaled car than an older one. The newer one has newer parts that are easily available. A 10 year old car is harder to bring back as it has 10 years of potholes, rust build-up, faded-hard to match paint and 10 years of abuse on it. Try getting the 10 year old paint to match the new paint and try to get that 10 year old interior to match that new interior door panel.
SGT Greg Rowe
'90 Eagle Talon AWD 'Little Monster'
[Here's another thing I've wondered. In California, you can "self-insure" by posting a bond with the state. Can such a person do the same thing insurance companies do with totalling vs. repairing cars? -talon mgr]
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